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We invite you to join the discussion about the challenges and opportunities facing the PC(USA) denomination and how we might lead into a new reality together. This website is a forum for information sharing, idea generating, and discussion. We ask that comments be respectful and not involve personal attacks; the Moderators reserve the right to remove posts.
13 Responses
Will there be anytime to gather together corporately for prayer while at the August meeting and seek the Lord’s guidance and presence?
Is there an updated version of the letter with updated signatures on this website?
Thank you.
The letter is available on the “Documents” page. Signatures are now listed on the “Supporters” page, which we update regularly. See the navigation bar across the top to find these pages. Thank you.
We may all have issues with a Candidate for ordination from time to time, but the Church holds because the error is not with the system per se. This is radically new, in that the whole Church is asked to conspire to change in order to spread the responsibility for false doctrine around to everyone, even desenters like me. When an active Gay, Lesbian, or Bi-Sexual person is approved for ordination, that person is ordained for the entire Church, which implies that every Elder, Deacon and Minister present and absent will be placing their hands upon the canditate, What about people who refuse to place thair hands upon this individual? What about that person’s conscience? How does he or she explain to God that their hands were not there when the Book of Order will clearly state that they were? Is anyone thinking about this but me?
Many of us are concerned with the Word of God and not the Book of Order. If we have obeyed of Lord, I don’t think the BOO will matter.
There can be no doubt that the PCUSA is on a path leading to destruction! The BIBLE provides clear instructions about qualifications for officers and for Ministers – and to ignore, or to purposely go forward in glaring conflict with The WORD is clearly a move that will split PCUSA into two segments – one will follow our LORD, the other will follow the evil ways of man. It appears to be too late to stop it. What a shame!
Mr. McAllister,
With all due respect, I challenge your position that the Bible provides clear instruction about qualifications . . . The Bible is so very UNCLEAR on many issues….however, I feel it IS clear on the essentials. (my personal opinion and interpretation!) The truth is our interpretations vary… theology itself causes separation of denominations based upon this very issue. The truth is, we as individual believers and denominations pick and choose as to what Biblical truths we embrace, whether it be women covering their heads (which is infact Biblical) or men having multiple wives (again Biblical). I wonder how many presbyterians completely embrace the Calvin view of election??
Perhaps faithful PCUSA congregations should consider becoming grafted into one or more of the healthy and good trees that produce good fruit: http://www.naparc.org/member-churches/
Question: How do YOU (Baus) define “faithful?” I think if we took a poll we would find differing interpretations of what it means to be faithful. My view is that we be faithful to Christ.
My contribution to the discussion is quite simple. For years, I have tried to fight the slide of our denomination, active in all aspects of my home church, praying for PCUSA, praying for my home church and my family. Now, after this unproductive effort, I am ready to dust off my sandals and move forward with “like minded believers”. PCUSA is not like minded anymore. As I said, I will be simple. To Fellowship PCUSA. I have no desire to share anything with PCUSA, at some point, you dust off your sandals and move forward towards more fertile evangelical challenges. To be blunt, let them reap the rewards of their own CHOICES.
I have participated in Presbyterian Global Fellowship and PFR events. These events have inspired me and ignited my leadership to re-focus on what is at the heart of Jesus and His Gospel. My congregation is in “transition” to being transformational. We are engaged in missional activities and conversations. Our people individually are becoming missionally minded. This new way (old way) of doing church has kept us moving forward. The immanent changes in ordination standards is about to take the wind out of our sails.
We are a small congregation (300) and to accept the authority of the new ordination standards will result in catastrophic membership loss and loss of extraordinary staff. Regardless of what we do, I believe we will take a hit simply from the passing of 10A. For a larger church, a hit like this means re-organization of resources and staff. For a church our size it cripples us. For us this vote and our response is do or die. We have our whole heart focused on what’s next. We need the influence of the larger churches and the larger churches need our urgency and focus.
Maybe I’m an alarmist. The response I get from other evangelicals is, our churches aren’t made up of Presbyterian people and they don’t know or care about the PCUSA. My church is the same, but we are a congregation that understands authority and connectionalism. In these conversations I have also heard ecclesiology thrown around in the sense that leaving is not an option. However if we want to be Reformed about ecclesiology our starting is place is in the Reformed definition of the True Church and to assess our position – Where the Word is purely preached and the sacraments rightly administered. I believe this is the jumping off point for us to engage in prayer and theological dialogue, otherwise 5 months, 5 years down the road when the dust settles the opportunity may be gone. I realize this is a strong position, but I beleive it is a conversation that has to take place.
What I see is us looking at structures to makes us feel better, but theologically can we feel better about where we are in a connectional denomination? I’m concerned we are circumventing a theological discussion with a conversation about what will make us all feel better about staying. I realize the White Paper and the Jim Singleton video talk about churches who can connect outside the denomination. I want to continue to listen and stay. I also want a conversation that will take us beyond structures. I’m committed to the new way forward and plan on being in MN.
Dear Fellowship,
What you’re doing is super. Thank you very much. New London Presbyterian Church will be represented at the August gathering in August.
I would like to make a suggestion for each of you on the steering committee and for all on the
o vote side of 10-A (we voted against 10-A as well). This suggestion comes from a little book written by Francis Schaeffer called The Mark of the Christian. An elder handed it to me 30 years ago and its impact has been with me ever since. Schaeffer’s compelling contention is that the mark of the christian, indeed the way that unbelievers will come to believe, is the degree to which Christians are one. When I think this through I ask myself if Jesus gives me permission to divorce myself or our church from our denominational body of Christ. If we do indeed agree on the essentials can we not remain one? In short, these verses are huge for all of us in guiding how we move forward. Bottom line, does John 17:21 permit anyone to disfellowship unless there is a denial of the Lordship of Jesus, salvation through the cross and the resurrection, the denial of which would mean those from one disfellowships had actually left the faith? Thanks so much for listening.
In Christ, Jeff Lampl, Christian Life Center, New London Presbyterian Church.
Question regarding the meeting in Minneapolis. Is there any information, in particular schedule, you can give. There are some pretty inexpensive air-fares right now but need to confirm what time its beginning and ending. I assume Minneapolis airport is the one to fly into. Thanks
Bob Thomson
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